Beef and the Hindus – discussion underway

The debate so far – here

Shri Kedar replies –

So you DONT have an alternate plan to that of the VHP or gougram. OK. (Pala S – If the VHP’s plan entails research in the area of the Cow’s uses, then I can go with that. However, if it’s plan includes banning Cow slaughter and having the State enforce it with a “Ministry of Cow” then the most sensible thing anybody with Hindu interests at heart can do is to oppose it. That’s my stance. I think for the likes of me, Hindu interests come over the Cow’s – howsoever sacred. That’s my alternative plan)

1) You said:

“So, is the “VHP” guilty of keeping some Hindus economically impoverished?”

My response:

If you concede that the VHP is so powerful to keep 70-80 crores of Hindus impoverished, I am impressed. Perhaps I need to resign from my job and join VHP . Also, it just proves how helpless you are against this torrent of a massive organisation that wants to do exactly opposite to what you believe. That admission alone is enough to put things in perspective regd. what happens on the internet vs. what happens in the real world. (Pala S – I’m not conceding anything. I’m deducing from your assertion that only Muslims and Christians butcher the Cow. You have obviously left out some %age of Hindus.

Shall we keep all bravado aside please? I wouldn’t have a rational explanation for any supposed “torrent” in favor of the VHP’s *banning* program)

2) You said:
“Now we know that beef was part of ritual sacrifices, diet at homes and recommended for medicinal applications.”

My response:

No point in running away from facts, but I do want to make sure the reference is correctly translated and not misused. If it is found to be correct, I will definitely allow for that. At the same time,

i) there is no dhArmic sanction for what they did. Vaidhika dharma was not imposed like the “halal” aspect of Islam, so people were free. But your own reference states people (regardless of varNa) were constantly exhorted to eschew all kinds of meat. (Pala S – So now our ancient beef and meat eaters are Adharmic?? We seem to be disowning a lot of what we were in our haste to look like the Cow’s saviors)

ii)Just like the reference to Madhuparka and bull-slaughter, there are many stories from around the same time where people had to perform superhuman acts like bringing down Ganga (one version) from vaikunTha or perform a tapasya or risk carrying the gohatya sin to the next janma. Now which is right? (Pala S – A-ha! Confuse and confound the opponent? Yes, even these “superhuman” acts prove the fact that some Kedar and some Pala were fighting over what we are fighting today :))

2) You said:

“what you have just said it does seem to me that the State used it’s resources to maintain old and (young?)”

My response:

I said what? Where did the State come from? My point was: most houses had a gOshAla a thousand years ago, though not all people were affluent. How did they manage to make ends meet without slaughtering the cows? (Pala S – Beats me. How could they manage to maintain unproductive Cows without the State pitching in? Or were citizens so rich that they could really splurge? Perhaps we should wait till we get that rich before we splurge)

3) You said:

i) “Ancient Hindus did NOT think that beef should be abhorred”

My response:

As I said above, there are both kinds of references. (Pala S – Yes. I heard that :))

ii) You said:

“Ancient Hindus did not consider those handling meat and beef in specific, untouchable. It occured to me that ritual slaughter happened on the site of the Homa-kunda. So people who were given the job of slaughtering were on-site and interacting with the Yajamana and his officiating priest”

My response:

well… there you go again regarding the “net net” logic! But did they actually slaughter the animal for sacrifice? I came by this reference recently:

Rigveda I-162-22:
na vA u EtamriyasE na riShyasi devAnidEShi pathibhih sugebhih |

Meaning (translation is indeed from Griffith, but I confirmed it from the learned):
“No, here thou diest not, thou art not injured: by easy paths unto the Gods thou goest.”

This verse is from one of the suktas for aSvamEdha. The aSva was supposedly operated upon and a part was removed. Now thats new! it actually goes against even what I said before– that animals were actually killed during sacrifice. But yes, meat and beef was handled in some way on-site. (Pala S – Hmm..so will you be willing to allow for Cows to be “operated upon”? C’mon Kedar!)

4) You said:

“We’ll just have to see how lay Hindus react to such produce.”

My response:

Wherever the Vishwamangala gougram yAtra goes, people are turning up in huge numbers. (Pala S – Yes. So the Organizer says. Economics of the Cow is something different from it’s politics)

5)You said:

“As things stand, we know what beef meant to our ancients. They hold the key to Hindu cohesion and greater sense”

My response:

Hindus (excluding your minority) will not eat beef whatever you tell them. Now what do you do? (Pala S – Nothing. My argument is not to force Hindus to eat beef. It’s enough if the “Dharmicas” realize that our ancestors ate not just meat but beef too. I will be happy if thereby the opprobrium of untouchability is uprooted)

Finally:

Please dont forget to include your alternate plan for “Hindu cohesion” in your reply. (Pala S – It’s very simple. Back to being Hindus, I say! Back to what we left behind under such false notions)

Btw do you still believe Iran and Cuba have banned Cow slaughter and beef? That Muslim rulers were great caretakers of Hindus because they abolished Cow slaughter?? Just how are these guys different from our secular-liberal BJP wallahs?

If the owners of this website would like thinking Hindus to appreciate what they do, then we need to tell them that they need something more than tricks. I’m doing just that now. So should you.

23rd Oct ’09

Shri Kedar replies – (My responses are beside)

1) About VHP: They are just implementers of the action items that spring from the thought that has been given to this issue by the  sAdhu-sants of bhArat. They dont get these ideas from nowhere. There is a deep connection between eminent saints of India like class=”mceItemHidden”> sant asaram bapu, jagadguru rAmabhadrAcharya, sAdhvi rithambharA, svAmI svAmI “>svAmI “>svAmI “>paramAnanda, svAmI rAm dev baba and VHP janta ashok singhal and pravIn tOgaDia. (Pala S – I’m aware of how the VHP functions. I should know, since I was an active member)

And I am not the one saying there is a torrent. YOU are accusing them of being such a force that they have the capacity to impoverish 70-80 crore Hindus (Pala S – Around 16%, considering the majority of Hindus don’t butcher animals for meat. Of course even this number has reduced keeping in mind occupational changes. The point I was making was that we have ceded this industry to Muslims and Christians unthinkingly)

2) I dont vouch for anything said in the website. I mentioned it only because I wanted to show whats happening regd. Cow protection in India these days. (Pala S – Well it helps to be careful about what we cite for support. How does an organization build credibility by resorting to lies? Still, what about their citing Muslim rule for support? That’s positively tragic)

3) If you dont believe organiser, lets not argue about it. Lets wait and see. By the way, I got that news from one of the grass-roots kAryakartAs.. not the organiser website. (Pala S – I’m not necessarily disbelieving the Organiser. I’m questioning the project’s feasibility and my reading of the material tells me it’s heavily dependent on emotion and not much of practical sense. For poor farmers with Cows, this is simply not good enough unless of course, they sell for meat)

4)You said:

“so will you be willing to allow for Cows to be “operated upon”? C’mon Kedar!”

My response:

Are you saying the verse doesnt exist at all? Or that it is a wrong translation of the verse? Or are you trying to make fun of me because I quoted what is written there? Have you tried to confirm it from people who know these things? (Pala S – I’m not disputing any of your contentions. In fact, so far in this debate I have not once said your references are false. In this case all I’m saying is that if the Asvamedha involved “operating” on the horse, then please accept the same logic wrt the Cow. To me it sounds more like the sacrifice was made painless)

5) You said:

“It’s enough if the “Dharmicas” realize that our ancestors ate not just meat but beef too. I will be happy if thereby the opprobrium of untouchability is uprooted”

My response:

Current untouchability has nothing to do with beef. Its just based on birth in a particular caste (no longer a varNa). People are ready to get rid of untouchability even without this tehelka-ish “expose”. And those who are adamant, will never understand why untouchability is wrong. If you are looking for uprooting of untouchability, why are you talking about beef and cow-slaughter? (Pala S – The fact that we ate beef is hardly an expose’. Untouchability cannot be explained without taking into account it’s causes. You seem to be trying to cure without attacking the cause of the disease. I have already said why there was no untouchability pre-Buddhism. It’s for you to explain how it came about without the causes I mentioned – Cow/animal slaughter and beef, etc. Else, please show me that untouchability existed in pre-Buddhist times also)

6) You said:

“Confuse and confound the opponent? Yes, even these “superhuman” acts prove the fact that some Kedar and some Pala were fighting over what we are fighting today”

My response:

Are you saying there are no such stories? Are you saying ‘gOhatya’ was not treated as a sin in bhAratIya literature that was written around the same time as the shatapatha-brAhamaNA, or vashishTha dharma-sUtrAs? In fact, it now strikes me that shatapatha BrahmaNA was composed much much later than Rigveda, hence Rigveda must be much more comfortable with cow-slaughter according to you. It is strange that RV is so clearly against cow-slaughter, whereas later texts are ambivalent. How do you explain that? (Pala S – I have maintained that to injunct against something is indicative of it’s existence. The fact that none of the “beef” references in later texts are challenged as being against Vedic injunctions tells me that something is amiss in your argument. Can you show me references against the Grihyasutras, let’s say?)

7) you said:

“How could they manage to maintain unproductive Cows without the State pitching in?”

My response:

Exactly! You ought to think about it. Have you ever ever heard of any king in our past giving out svarNa mudrAs to the people so that cows can be maintained? In fact, there are many instances of gOdAna by kings and other affluent people to the comman man, the very thing that would (according to you) burden the common man even more. And this went on for more than 1000 years–from Buddha’s time of 500 BCE till medieval Islamic age, gOdAna was consistently done! How many years, decades or centuries do you think it should take for our affluent bhAratIyAs to realise that their dAna is actually burdening the recepient?

Something just doesnt fit in this Chawla-theory. (Pala S – I’m surprised you miss the simple point of capacity to maintain. Would person x donate a Cow to persons y and z if x thought y and z cannot maintain the Cow in good health? Did Cows not cost anything to maintain back then? Or cash (capacity) was proven. Can I know of anybody willing to donate Cows today to anybody else who has no capacity to maintain the animal, forget paying for it? There is a cost-sheet in that website you linked to. I’d like to know how many have thought even this plan feasible)

You said:

“So now our ancient beef and meat eaters are Adharmic?? We seem to be disowning a lot of what we were in our haste to look like the Cow’s saviors.”

My response:

I was talking only about the bull-slaughter (guests situation) from shatapatha brAhmaNa. It obviously didnt come out right, since I was (surreptitiously)typing from office. As it turns out, I am hoping for some more inputs regarding shatapatha brAhmaNa. Please hold off discussion on this reference till I ascertain that the translation is correct. (Pala S – Ok)

9) By the way, one more reference: This is from a text called mahAbhArata, which was composed not later than shatapatha brAhmaNa. The translation is by kisArI mOhan gAnguli.

MahabhArata AnuSasana parva, section-74:

Emperor YudhiSThira is taking advice from bhIshma lying on the bed of arrows–

“”Indra[actually, YudhiShThira] said, ‘I wish to know, O Grandsire, what the end is that is attained by him who consciously steals a cow or who sells one from motives of cupidity.”

“The Grandsire said, ‘Hear what the consequences are that overtake those persons that steal a cow for killing her for food or selling her for wealth, or making a gift of her unto a Brahmana. He, who, without being checked by the restraints of the scriptures, sells a cow, or kills one, or eats the flesh of a cow, or they, who, for the sake of wealth, suffer a person to kill kine,–all these, viz., he that kills, he that eats, and he that permits the slaughter,–rot in hell for as many years as there are hairs on the body of the cow so slain. O thou of great puissance, those faults and those kinds of faults that have been said to attach to one that obstructs a Brahmana’s sacrifice, are said to attach to the sale and the theft of kine.” – (Pala S – I have highlighted my argument)

Debate continues – 24th Oct ’09

Shri Kedar replies to my response –

1) You said:

“In this case all I’m saying is that if the Asvamedha involved “operating” on the horse, then please accept the same logic wrt the Cow.”

My response:

That was the point I was making actually. I said earlier that meat was indeed handled. But might not have involved killing. And how that verse “sounds” to someone is subjective. (Pala S – ??)

2) You said:

“I’m questioning the project’s feasibility and my reading of the material tells me it’s heavily dependent on emotion and not much of practical sense.”

AND

“Would person x donate a Cow to persons y and z if x thought y and z cannot maintain the Cow in good health?”

AND

“There is a cost-sheet in that website you linked to. I’d like to know how many have thought even this plan feasible.”

My response:

Yes. I have seen the numbers, and it is an uphill task. As of now, there is no other option, since we will not eat beef. Nor will we let muslims and christians carry on with this butchery of the beings we revere as Goddess and Mother. (Pala S – In the meanwhile Cow protecting Hindus will carry on their Dharma of watching abandoned Cows and allied cattle eat plastic and kill themselves. Who cares as long we we “feel” that we are in fact protecting Cows!

I was in Mandya yesterday and went to my aunt’s village.

I asked my cousin who was with me and was familiar with the village; what do these farmers do with cattle that are old?

He told me these were sold to Muslim butchers.

I asked him if the farmers knew about what happens after the sale? He replied in the affirmative.

I then asked him if the farmers ate beef? He was shocked. He said Hindus did not eat beef.

I see, I said.

I think Cow protectors don’t realize the misery they cause Cows. When slaughter goes underground, the sole purpose of the butcher is to complete slaughter as quickly as possible. So the sale, the torturous transportation, the pick-up and drop down of Cows and cattle from trucks is then accomplished in the most inhuman and painful manner possible. Then the slaughter itself is done after much dragging and slashing. No ramp, no painkiller, no inducing of sleep nothing)

3)You said:

“Still, what about their citing Muslim rule for support?”

My response:

Can you please add this as well in your email? Also, did someone mention something about Cow-politics?

4)You said:

“It’s for you to explain how it came about without the causes I mentioned – Cow/animal slaughter and beef, etc.”

My response:

It is wrong to assume that chAnDAlAs were banished because they dealt with beef. It is the other way around–those who were banished eventually had to take up this profession. There are certain sins (like  class=”hiddenSpellError” pre=”like “>brahma-hatya, sleeping with Guru’s wife, etc) in Manusmriti (1500 BCE) for which people were banished. In fact, some of Buddha’s anecdotes refer to untouchability. There was untouchability in pre-Buddhist period. (Pala S – Not even Shri Dr Ambedkar is agreed that untouchability existed pre-Buddhism.

While the Impure as a class came into existence at the time of the Dharma Sutras the Untouchables came into being much later than 400 A.D.”

Shri Kedar, your position seems to be the same as anti-Hindu Dalit propagandists who claim they suffered untouchability for thousands of years. Can you please explain this great propensity for Cow protectors to be on the same page as assorted anti-Hindus?)

You may now stop eating beef if you feel that, that would result in uprooting untouchability there are subtler ways. (Pala S – Like explained above, nothing positive is achieved by resorting to convenient theories and “facts”)

5) Regd. mahAbhArata:

“O thou of great puissance, those faults and those kinds of faults that have been said to attach to one that obstructs a Brahmana’s sacrifice, are said to attach to THE SALE AND THE THEFT OF THE KINE.”

What do you think bhIshma means when he says: “without being checked by the restraints of the scriptures”? What are those restraints? Does he mean that there are scriptural restraints as to when and how a Cow shall be slaughtered? (Pala S – Yes) Does that mean Cow shall not be slaughtered for everyday meal? (Pala S – Perhaps)

And what about this sale of kine (theft is understandable)? (Pala S – What is the point? Cows may nevertheless be slaughtered)

6) You said:

“The fact that none of the “beef” references in later texts are challenged as being against Vedic injunctions tells me that something is amiss in your argument. Can you show me references against the Grihyasutras, let’s say?”

My response:

Please confirm one point here:

The two references you have are–

1) The economic theory of Cow by Anil Chawla (ahem!) – I do not see what is wrong with Shri Chawla’s article. You have not disputed it’s facts in any manner.

2) The bhAnDArkar book on ancient India. – references from Rg Veda. Same book.

Is that correct?

And think about it: RV, the first book (though unwritten) on this planet, and from whom all others have derived their fundamentals is so adamantly against cow-slaughter. The two references I have given, fall somewhere in the middle portion, not oldest, not latest portion of RV.

So you feel that an injunction indicates its presence. Nice! Now please dont stop at the indicator and finish the unfinished business. Find a direct clear evidence (like yajnavalkya’s supposed liking for tender beef mentioned in your reference) for cow-slaughter in the earlier RV manDalas. (Pala S – You asked for pre-Buddhist evidence and when I provided, you now want references from the Rg Veda. In any case, please see above)

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6 Responses

  1. 1) About VHP: They are just implementers of the action items that spring from the thought that has been given to this issue by the sAdhu-sants of bhArat. They dont get these ideas from nowhere. There is a deep connection between eminent saints of India like sant asaram bapu, jagadguru rAmabhadrAcharya, sAdhvi rithambharA, svAmI paramAnanda, svAmI rAm dev baba and VHP janta ashok singhal and pravIn tOgaDia.

    And I am not the one saying there is a torrent. YOU are accusing them of being such a force that they have the capacity to impoverish 70-80 crore Hindus 🙂

    2) I dont vouch for anything said in the website. I mentioned it only because I wanted to show whats happening regd. Cow protection in India these days.

    3) If you dont believe organiser, lets not argue about it. Lets wait and see. By the way, I got that news from one of the grass-roots kAryakartAs.. not the organiser website.

    4)You said:
    “so will you be willing to allow for Cows to be “operated upon”? C’mon Kedar!”

    My response:
    Are you saying the verse doesnt exist at all? Or that it is a wrong translation of the verse? Or are you trying to make fun of me because I quoted what is written there? Have you tried to confirm it from people who know these things?

    5) You said:
    “It’s enough if the “Dharmicas” realize that our ancestors ate not just meat but beef too. I will be happy if thereby the opprobrium of untouchability is uprooted”

    My response:
    Current untouchability has nothing to do with beef. Its just based on birth in a particular caste (no longer a varNa). People are ready to get rid of untouchability even without this tehelka-ish “expose”. And those who are adamant, will never understand why untouchability is wrong. If you are looking for uprooting of untouchability, why are you talking about beef and cow-slaughter?

    6) You said:
    “Confuse and confound the opponent? Yes, even these “superhuman” acts prove the fact that some Kedar and some Pala were fighting over what we are fighting today”

    My response:
    Are you saying there are no such stories? Are you saying ‘gOhatya’ was not treated as a sin in bhAratIya literature that was written around the same time as the shatapatha-brAhamaNA, or vashishTha dharma-sUtrAs? In fact, it now strikes me that shatapatha BrahmaNA was composed much much later than Rigveda, hence Rigveda must be much more comfortable with cow-slaughter according to you. It is strange that RV is so clearly against cow-slaughter, whereas later texts are ambivalent. How do you explain that?

    7) you said:
    “How could they manage to maintain unproductive Cows without the State pitching in?”

    My response:
    Exactly! You ought to think about it. Have you ever ever heard of any king in our past giving out svarNa mudrAs to the people so that cows can be maintained? In fact, there are many instances of gOdAna by kings and other affluent people to the comman man, the very thing that would (according to you) burden the common man even more. And this went on for more than 1000 years–from Buddha’s time of 500 BCE till medieval Islamic age, gOdAna was consistently done! How many years, decades or centuries do you think it should take for our affluent bhAratIyAs to realise that their dAna is actually burdening the recepient?

    Something just doesnt fit in this Chawla-theory.

    8) You said:
    “So now our ancient beef and meat eaters are Adharmic?? We seem to be disowning a lot of what we were in our haste to look like the Cow’s saviors.”

    My response:
    I was talking only about the bull-slaughter (guests situation) from shatapatha brAhmaNa. It obviously didnt come out right, since I was (surreptitiously)typing from office. As it turns out, I am hoping for some more inputs regarding shatapatha brAhmaNa. Please hold off discussion on this reference till I ascertain that the translation is correct.

    9) By the way, one more reference: This is from a text called mahAbhArata, which was composed not later than shatapatha brAhmaNa. The translation is by kisArI mOhan gAnguli.

    MahabhArata AnuSasana parva, section-74:

    Emperor YudhiSThira is taking advice from bhIshma lying on the bed of arrows–

    “”Indra[actually, YudhiShThira] said, ‘I wish to know, O Grandsire, what the end is that is attained by him who consciously steals a cow or who sells one from motives of cupidity.”

    “The Grandsire said, ‘Hear what the consequences are that overtake those persons that steal a cow for killing her for food or selling her for wealth, or making a gift of her unto a Brahmana. He, who, without being checked by the restraints of the scriptures, sells a cow, or kills one, or eats the flesh of a cow, or they, who, for the sake of wealth, suffer a person to kill kine,–all these, viz., he that kills, he that eats, and he that permits the slaughter,–rot in hell for as many years as there are hairs on the body of the cow so slain. O thou of great puissance, those faults and those kinds of faults that have been said to attach to one that obstructs a Brahmana’s sacrifice, are said to attach to the sale and the theft of kine.””

  2. 1) You said:
    “In this case all I’m saying is that if the Asvamedha involved “operating” on the horse, then please accept the same logic wrt the Cow.”

    My response:
    That was the point I was making actually. I said earlier that meat was indeed handled. But might not have involved killing. And how that verse “sounds” to someone is subjective.

    2) You said:
    “I’m questioning the project’s feasibility and my reading of the material tells me it’s heavily dependent on emotion and not much of practical sense.”

    AND

    “Would person x donate a Cow to persons y and z if x thought y and z cannot maintain the Cow in good health?”

    AND

    “There is a cost-sheet in that website you linked to. I’d like to know how many have thought even this plan feasible.”

    My response:
    Yes. I have seen the numbers, and it is an uphill task. As of now, there is no other option, since we will not eat beef. Nor will we let muslims and christians carry on with this butchery of the beings we revere as Goddess and Mother.

    3)You said:
    “Still, what about their citing Muslim rule for support?”

    My response:
    Can you please add this as well in your email? Also, did someone mention something about Cow-politics?

    4)You said:
    “It’s for you to explain how it came about without the causes I mentioned – Cow/animal slaughter and beef, etc.”

    My response:
    It is wrong to assume that chAnDAlAs were banished because they dealt with beef. It is the other way around–those who were banished eventually had to take up this profession. There are certain sins (like brahma-hatya, sleeping with Guru’s wife, etc) in Manusmriti (1500 BCE) for which people were banished. In fact, some of Buddha’s anecdotes refer to untouchability. There was untouchability in pre-Buddhist period.

    You may now stop eating beef if you feel that, that would result in uprooting untouchability 🙂 there are subtler ways.

    5) Regd. mahAbhArata:
    “O thou of great puissance, those faults and those kinds of faults that have been said to attach to one that obstructs a Brahmana’s sacrifice, are said to attach to THE SALE AND THE THEFT OF THE KINE.”

    What do you think bhIshma means when he says: “without being checked by the restraints of the scriptures”? What are those restraints? Does he mean that there are scriptural restraints as to when and how a Cow shall be slaughtered? Does that mean Cow shall not be slaughtered for everyday meal?

    And what about this sale of kine (theft is understandable)?

    6) You said:
    “The fact that none of the “beef” references in later texts are challenged as being against Vedic injunctions tells me that something is amiss in your argument. Can you show me references against the Grihyasutras, let’s say?”

    My response:
    Please confirm one point here:

    The two references you have are–
    1) The economic theory of Cow by Anil Chawla (ahem!).
    2) The bhAnDArkar book on ancient India.
    Is that correct?

    And think about it: RV, the first book (though unwritten) on this planet, and from whom all others have derived their fundamentals is so adanamantly against cow-slaughter. The two references I have given, fall somewhere in the middle portion, not oldest, not latest portion of RV.

    So you feel that an injunction indicates its presence. Nice! Now please dont stop at the indicator and finish the unfinished business. Find a direct clear evidence (like yajnavalkya’s supposed liking for tender beef mentioned in your reference) for cow-slaughter in the earlier RV manDalas.

  3. I am right now in the process of searching and compiling shAstra-sammata vyAkhyAnas for every single vedic reference (Both from rigveda and brahmaNAs) you have provided till now. It will probably take a few days time.

    Regarding
    i) Are you saying the Manusmriti reference is not right?
    ii) And even by Dr.Ambedkar’s own theory, 400 CE is like 900 years after Buddha’s time–too long to attribute the origin of untouchability to the rise of Buddhism.
    iii) I had a brief glance at the Ambedkar link you provided, and I saw words like ‘aryan tribes’ and ‘dasas’ and ‘invasions’– First the Dravidian invasion of India, then Aryan invasion of Dravidians! Tch! Tch! He was just another victim of the contemporary theories peddled by the Eurocentric west regarding the vedas. He can be forgiven if he thinks something of this sort, but we know better now. No need to give creed to these theories any longer.

  4. typo:
    Regarding *origins of untouchability*

  5. And Oh! I nearly forgot to congratulate you on your progress:

    Regarding Mahabharata link:
    Does that mean Cow shall not be slaughtered for everyday meal?
    (Pala S – Perhaps)

    “Perhaps”? Nice! Thats progress. Its not a “No” at the least.

    And that was exactly my central argument: cows were not slaughtered for daily meals purposes. Perhaps for ritual, or medicinal purposes, but not for beef-biryani when somebody feels like eating it.

  6. how can I add to bookrmark your blog? would you like to visit mine? regards!

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